Extended exercises for SINGING THE NUMBERS

Ah - David beat me to it :slight_smile:

Yes, that is correct.The subs appear just after you sing the sequence for you to confirm you were correct.
With the STN version, they appear in the same spot, but just before so you can sing them first.

Thanks David - that’s good to hear :smiley:

@paul I looked at your mkv file, and that’s pretty nifty. What a lot of work went into that.

@hender99 Thanks Allen. Yes, it did take a bit of time to put together, but I think it was worth it as it’s what I use everyday to practice with.

Thanks, yes I had to Export, then Open with/Share to the VLC app.

These are great! I think the FTN versions would be a very useful addition to a Sing the Numbers practice.

I’d understand if @ImproviseForReal is not keen on you sharing them openly, but maybe for someone like myself who has purchased the StN and Ear Training for Creativity products, he would be okay with it. That is if you are happy to pass them around.

@mem Yes of course, I’m grateful for finding the IFR program and all the helpful folks here on the forum too. I’d be more than happy to share the FTN version of the files and give something back to the community.

I could provide them directly to David if there are any concerns, so that he could pass them on to those who are interested and that have purchased the STN1 course, but I understand if that’s not something he is interested in doing.

@ImproviseForReal what do you think?

@Paul If sharing is approved, either direct from you or via David Reed, then I’d be delighted to add a set of ‘StN as FtN’ to my collection (which, I assure you, already includes everything that can be bought from IFR, so I already have legitimate copies of the ‘originals’ from which you developed your FtNs).

@Paul @hender99 @DavidW @mem

I love the spirit of this thread because you’re collaborating together, inventing creative new ways to take your music practice in different directions, and even being respectful of our work at IFR in terms of asking permission to share content. All of that is wonderful and I appreciate it very much.

@Paul, could you make a post summarizing exactly what you are proposing? I know that the story is probably explained over the course of this thread. But since you’re asking our opinion about a specific proposal, I think it’s best for everyone if we start with a concise documentation of the question. I realize that there could be multiple proposals or options. Feel free to articulate those as well. I just need a single post that I can respond to, so that you know you have our permission for the exact thing you would like to do. But I love your contribution and we’ll absolutely support you in whatever way is best for everyone.


@ImproviseForReal Thanks David. This is basically what the post was referring to:
Using the original set of STN1 files, I created a new set where I used the original backing track, and replaced the vocal sequences done by Mireias with a piano. Essentially creating FTN tracks.These are exactly the same sequences as the originals. I then created a blank video with the audio track and added subtitles to show just after the point where you repeat the sequence - to confirm your accuracy.
There has been a request to share these files, which I am happy to do, but obviously don’t want to start handing them out without your say so.
I think most participants on the forum have probably purchased the course and so own the original files, but I have no way to know that. That is why I suggested that I could forward them directly to you so that you have control on how they are distributed if this is an issue?

From my point of view, @Paul has generated a bunch on videos using the Sing the Numbers audio files, but in a similar vein to the Feel the Numbers ones, only with subtitles showing the melodies in numbers. He has put one example in DropBox for us to try.

I was wondering if we could get access to the full set somehow, with your agreement, possibly using DropBox again.

@Paul, Thank you for that summary. This is a great example of what we could call “user generated IFR enhancements”, and I think that we should be enthusiastically supportive of all such endeavors. Our original mission with IFR was never to try to monopolize the music teaching industry. The goal from the beginning was just to share the joy of creating music with all of the beautiful, sensitive music lovers out there who would LOVE to discover and express their own music.

We certainly want to stay in business because we’ve invested more than 10 years now in creating learning materials to help musicians find this creative path. But “staying in business” doesn’t mean chasing down every struggling musician in the world and demanding to see his receipt for any IFR materials that may have come into his possession. So we’re not interested in getting in your way, inserting ourselves into the process just to make sure that every user of your practice tool has paid for the underlying IFR materials. We would much rather this be a free and open community, because the higher mission has always been to spread the enjoyment of music to everyone.

From a copyright perspective, the only issue is that intellectual property law REQUIRES us to vigorously and unambiguously assert our copyright claim every time the subject comes up. In other words, I can’t openly authorize people to use our materials without paying for them, because this can be interpreted later in court as invalidating our copyright in general. This can lead to situations that really would destroy the entire IFR project, like for example other people counterfeiting our entire website and learning program and selling those materials online in direct competition with us, perhaps at a fraction of the price since to them it would be all stolen profit anyway.

But here’s how I think we can resolve all of these different issues and goals:

  1. Before publishing any tool that uses copyrighted IFR content, please do request explicit permission from me. This protects both of us. It protects you against any accusation of copyright infringement because you will have our written permission for the exact thing you want to publish. And for us, it gives us a kind of control valve that allows us to object to uses of our materials that we wouldn’t approve. For example, you might imagine a similar enhancement to one of our video courses. But I would absolutely NOT approve giving away those entire video courses along with your enhancement, and I wouldn’t even be comfortable relying on the honor system for something like that. For any product that significant, the appropriate course of action would be to work with you to incorporate your enhancement into the official IFR product. But because all of these are judgement calls, we just need to review each proposed use of IFR copyrighted content on a case by case basis. That way we can avoid misunderstandings and you can be sure that anything you are sharing is totally fine.

  2. Please limit your publication of your practice tools to this IFR Student Forum. This serves multiple purposes. First, it enhances the value of our student forum which is beneficial to the entire IFR community. Second, it protects you from misunderstandings and potential missteps because you have the entire IFR community here to see what you’re doing and express any concerns they have. Third, it allows myself and the other IFR team members to stay current with how these student generated enhancements are evolving. So whenever you create practice tools that make use of copyrighted IFR content, I would ask you to please limit your publication of these materials to this student forum. (But it’s fine if you want to communicate the existence of these tools beyond our forum. For example, you might publish something on Facebook or in an email newsletter letting your own followers know about the new tool you created. But those announcements should link directly here to the IFR Student Forum for full details and access to the tool. If the tool itself needs to be served from a 3rd party service like Dropbox, then the Dropbox link should only be available here in the IFR Student Forum. You get the idea. We just want everyone seeking your tool to come to the IFR Student Forum as the gateway to the content.)

  3. In all of your publications about your tool, you just need to be very clear about the copyrighted IFR materials that appear in your practice tool. But you can communicate this in a very friendly and positive way. Here is an example:

IMPORTANT: This tool makes use of copyrighted content from the IFR ear training course “Sing the Numbers 1: The IFR Tonal Map”. If you haven’t yet purchased this course from IFR, please purchase it here before using my tool:

In terms of copyright, the above three steps are all we need. And for this specific idea of sharing your self-test enhancement to our Sing the Numbers course, you have my blessing in sharing it as long as you respect the three requirements above.

At the risk of over-sharing, I also want to tag @mem, @hender99 and @DavidW just because this is an important issue and you have all made such wonderful contributions to our community. But I won’t keep tagging everyone on every post. So if there is further discussion on this thread and if you want to follow the conversation, please just remember to keep coming back and checking the thread for updates.

Thank you all. Just thinking of you and exploring these topics together is such a privilege for me. You’re all wonderful. :slight_smile:


If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants.
Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

You, David @ImproviseForReal & @MireiaClua ,are our ‘giants’.

It’s not a perfectly appropriate use of the quote as I’m sure that I at least do not see further than you do! However, you certainly enable me to see further than I would otherwise. Thank you. :smiley:


This is why this forum and IFR is such a treasure. I really appreciate your generosity and willing to share your knowledge.

Thank you David.
I have added the complete set of (enhanced) files to a RAR archive, which displays the required information regarding copyright on opening (as well as being contained within the archive as a text file).
I have password protected the archive, so even if the link to the file is shared, the password will only be available on request, via this forum.
I hope this addresses your requirements for sharing.

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Here is the link to the STN1 (FTN enhanced) versions of the course files:

If you would like a copy, please message me for the archive password.

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I’ll second that, most certainly!

Thank you @Paul for producing the material, looking forward to checking it out.


The password protected archive, complete with copyrigt notice, is a really neat idea @paul.

You have a PM. :smiley:


This looks beautiful. Thank you @Paul for your generosity in setting this up for everyone’s benefit. I’ll PM you for the password, as I’m excited to check it out too! - David


Thank you guys - you’re very welcome.
All PM’s have been replied to :slight_smile:

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@paul @mem @hender99 @ImproviseForReal My first impression (just listening to ‘week 10’ tracks 19 & 20) is that they feel harder (i.e. a step up from) the equivalent official Ear Training for Musical Creativity FtN tracks (22 & 23), and that’s with not coming to them ‘cold’, i.e. I’ve heard StN 19 & 20 many many times.

I’m pretty sure this is no coincidence, since as I’ve mentioned before the ‘official’ FtN were clearly designed for the purpose, with sequences that feel to have been devised to lead the user carefully by the ear without the safety net of sung numbers; a ‘challenge’ but a fair challenge and with many groups of patterns arranged such that, even though usually different, the ‘next’ pattern often has a relationship to the ‘previous’ that aids your perception of ‘was I correct’ .

However, at the right point a ‘step up’ challenge is good. I’ll be thinking about how to best, & when, to introduce these into my playlists. Thanks again @Paul . :smiley:

PS. the first thing I did was to convert the files to .mp3 since my Digital Audio Player doesn’t understand .mkv.
There are various applications that can be used to do such conversions. Some are free but a few years ago I purchased Wonderfox Video Converter Factory Pro and find it very handy for video & audio file format conversions (clipping, etc.,…).

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@DavidW - you’re welcome. I’m glad you find them useful.

With regards to the mkv file, it is basically just a container for the MP4 video, MP3 audio and SRT subtitle files.
For anyone downloading the FTN set, if you would like the mp3’s, PM me.

I downloaded the videos, and have been using them alongside a re-run through of Ear Training for Creativity course, so just the first 3 or 4 lessons so far.

Not noticed a leap in difficulty, but maybe it’s not apparent in the early lessons. But yes, it could be that the tracks with sung numbers are a little more challenging than the Feel the Numbers purpose made ones.

The mp3 only versions will be useful for putting on different devices. I’ll PM.